When Monaco Gives You Lemons, Make Lemonade – Frankenstein Paul Newman ‘Lemon’ and Other Beauties

The story you are about to read is about past sins coming back to haunt one. Put together in the early 1990s, the present watch ended up with an Italian businessman/offshore powerboat champion and is now being offered at Monaco Legend Auctions. The auction house was informed about the issues but did not bother to update the lot essay with the crucial information, stating there are no records from Rolex and the watch could very well be original. I disagree. As a matter of fact, I have tons of records, the largest Rolex Daytona database on the planet actually and it is more than clear that the watch in question is a typical Frankenstein watch consisting of original parts but mismatched from different periods and reference numbers. The ‘Lemon’ story is of course just a gateway to a much bigger issue with Monaco Legend Auctions.


Update April 21, 2024
Sadly, Mr. Parmegiani decided to go ahead with the sale of a qualified Frankenstein watch and in so doing, created a very bad precedent which was witnessed by all of the watch collecting world. Officially, the watch fetched a hammer price of EUR 670,000 which results in a total sales price EUR 871,000 including 30% buyer’s premium. A historic new low for a ‘Lemon’ compared to recent sales, it is nonetheless a lot of money for watch that never left the Rolex factory like that. Whether the sale was real or just an illusion, as so often with this kind of stories (e.g. at Antiquorum), remains to be seen. In any case, this is a very sad developement. The good thing is, ‘big boss’ Parmegiani finally showed his true colours in public.

Lot 47 – Rolex Paul Newman Daytona ‘Lemon’, 18k Yellow Gold, Ref. 6241, 1947341

At first, the present watch might dazzle you like a deer caught in headlights but once one studies the details the problems lie bare. Being a Ref. 6241 from the 1.94 million case number range, a ‘Lemon’ dial has no business in this watch. Add the Cal. 727 which was only introduced with the new Ref. 6262 and 6264 and what you have is the colloquial lemon.

Monaco Legend Auctions, Lot 47 - Rolex Paul Newman 'Lemon' Daytona Ref. 6241
Monaco Legend Auctions, Lot 47 – Rolex Paul Newman ‘Lemon’ Daytona Ref. 6241


Auction: Lot 47 – Rolex Paul Newman ‘Lemon’ Daytona Ref. 6241 (monacolegendauctions.com)

Unfortunately, there is not much more to show as the auction house provided only pictures of the outside of the watch but the specs speak for themselves. There is some serious money at play here. The estimate is between EUR 600k and 1.2 million. Mr. Parmegiani, who is the chairman and head of the watch department, sent me pictures of the movement and the inside of the caseback although in dismal quality. Not sure how it is even possible nowadays to take such bad pictures. The movement is the earliest version of Cal. 727 matching the 6264 ‘Lemon’ dial which makes it evident that whoever put this watch together was too lazy to remove the dial and just swapped the whole dial/movement combo from one case into another.

Mr. Parmegiani’s auctions used to be a shining example of how lots ought to be presented in this day and age. As you can see in the screenshot below from the October 2020 auction, not only did they disclose all the numbers, they also provided pictures of the engravings between the lugs, of the movement and the inside of the caseback. I remember being very impressed with Mr. Parmegiani.


As a researcher, this kind of super transparent presentation was ideal to grow my database. Unfortunately it did not take much for it to stop. While documenting the new vintage Daytona lots of the October 2020 auction catalogue in my database, I discovered what turned out to be a completely fake Rolex Daytona Ref. 6263 ‘Fuerza Aerea del Perú’ (Peruvian Air Force). Interestingly, while other vintage Daytona lots were presented in great detail, as seen above, the lot in question did only showcase the engravings between the lugs but no pictures of the movement or the inside of the caseback, both of which turned out to be fake on closer inspection. My initial assessment was based solely on the fake engravings between the lugs and the fact that a Daytona with the same case number had previously been auctioned at Antiquorum and Sotheby’s, looking completely different. Although well-executed, the fake engravings did not pass the Perezcope sniff test. Parmegiani immediately withdrew the watch and replaced it with a legit Rolex Daytona Ref. 6263 ‘Fuerza Aerea del Perú’, this time also showcasing the inside of the caseback and the movement as can be seen in the screenshot below. Unfortunately, I did not screenshot the initial lot presentation of the fake watch but I downloaded all images of course.


Me finding a fake watch in his catalogue must have terribly upset Parmegiani as from that moment onwards, sadly, none of the lots were ever shown in the same detail again but only from outside in different angles as seen below.


There is no doubt in my mind that Parmegiani does not want me nor anybody else to scrutinize the watches he is selling.


Paul Newman ‘Lemon’ Dial

Mr. Parmegiani told me he has had a number of Paul Newman ‘Lemon’ dials in the 1.9 million range in the past, especially on this transitional model which already featured the Cal. 727 movement. For him they are are common thing and he is much more of the opinion that “tantissimi” (tons) of ‘Lemon’ dials were swapped after watch dealers in the early 2000s came to realize their customers preferred to see the ‘Limoncino’ as a very rare object, since Ref. 6264 cases, in production for just one year, are much rarer than Ref. 6241 or Ref. 6239 cases.

There is a lot to unpack here. First of all, I do not doubt Parmegiani has seen ‘Lemon’ dials in the 1.9 million range as wannabe Dr. Frankensteins have been ‘playing god’ with these watches since the 1980s, chasing always bigger profits. As a matter of fact, no other watches have undergone more forced transformations over the course of time than vintage Daytonas. The present watch is the perfect example. Secondly, I have never heard that Ref. 6241 in the 1.9 million case number range is a transitional model. Anyone with a bit of knowledge on this matter will roll their eyes at this statement. There are several 6241 batches after this, even a final Ref. 6241 batch in the 2.3 million range, still featuring correct Cal. 722-1 movements. Cal. 727 was only introduced with the updated models of Ref. 6262 and Ref. 6264 which replaced Ref. 6239 and Ref. 6241. As usual with Rolex, when a new movement was introduced, they also changed the reference number. Thirdly, “customers preferred to see the ‘Limoncino’ as a very rare object”? I see where this is going. It is the customers’ fault that greedy dealers created all these Frankenstein watches. Right!

Nothing of what Mr. Parmegiani said is reflected in my database with now over 9,000 well-documented vintage Daytona examples. The present watch is the only properly documented Ref. 6241 specimen in the 1.9 million range. There are another two in the 2.1 million range, one depicted in Pucci Papaleo’s ‘Ultimate Rolex Daytona’ book which is riddled with questionable watches, the most prominent one being the infamous ‘Neanderthal’ Frankenstein, the other one sold a few years back at auction. Both feature a correct Cal. 722-1. That’s about it with publicly known Ref. 6241 gold watches featuring Paul Newman ‘Lemon’ dials. If I were to guess, both these watches were put together with loose ‘Lemon’ dials.

A handful ‘Lemon’ dial watches described as Ref. 6241 were sold at Antiquorum in the early 1990s, before disclosing case numbers became standard. Naturally they are difficult to classify. However, Ref. 6264 watches from the for “Lemon’ dials correct batch in the 2.35 million case number range had 6241 stamps.

Typical Ref. 6241 caseback found on Ref. 6264 Paul Newman 'Lemon' 18k gold watches, this one belonging to case number 2357384
Typical 6241 caseback found on Rolex Daytona Ref. 6264 Paul Newman ‘Lemon’ 18k gold watches, this one belonging to case number 2357384 (Photo: Christie’s)


Knowing how lazy Antiquorum was back in the day, they probably did not bother with checking the engravings between the lugs, thus relying solely on the caseback stamps. The same happened with a number of Ref. 6263/6265 watches described as Ref. 6262 due to fact that on early examples Rolex used up old casebacks featuring discontinued reference numbers. Therefore, most of those 6241 ‘Lemons’ were almost certainly correct Ref. 6264 watches. If we look at the earliest known ‘Lemon’ examples that appeared on the market in the 1980s, they were indeed described as Ref. 6264 watches.

‘Lemon’ dials have a flat ‘T Swiss T’ designation which is a hallmark of Ref. 6262/6264 watches. The designation refers to the radioactive luminous substance used to make the hour markers and hands visible in the dark, which from 1964 until 1998 was exclusively tritium. The style of the ‘T Swiss T’ designation changed three times over the course of the production span of Paul Newman dials. The earliest dials made for Ref. 6239/6241 have a wide ‘T Swiss T’ whose letters ascend towards the center of the designation, the I being taller than the rest of the letters. The second iteration was much narrower but still ascending towards the center. With Ref. 6262/6264, the ‘T Swiss T’ kept its narrow character from before but now all letters had the same height, ergo referred to as flat ‘T Swiss T’.

Evolution 'T Swiss T on Paul Newman 'Champagne' and 'Lemon' dials
Evolution ‘T Swiss T on Paul Newman ‘Champagne’ and ‘Lemon’ dials


Since the 1980s, dealers have been playing around with Daytonas to create so-called ‘perfect watches’, meaning a perfect dial housed in a perfect, nearly untouched case. In this process, lots of dials ended up in wrong cases. I can see this in my database. There are clear patterns. Watches that came from original owners follow the rule, watches that have been circulating for decades in dealer circles do not. The exact same evolution of the ‘T Swiss T’ designation described above can also be found on ‘John Player Special’ or ‘JPS’ dials.

Evolution 'T Swiss T on Paul Newman 'John Player Special' or 'JPS' dials
Evolution ‘T Swiss T on Paul Newman ‘John Player Special’ or ‘JPS’ dials


Speaking of ‘T Swiss T’, a Rolex Daytona Ref. 6263 featuring a peculiar Paul Newman ‘Oyster Sotto’ or ‘RCO’ dial with a never before seen, awkwardly wide ‘T Swiss T’ sold at Monaco Legend Auctions in late October 2023, for the mind-boggling sum of USD 1.9 million. Now, that watch has been on my radar for several years as it rang all alarm bells, not only mine but several respected collector’s as well.


Lot 281 – Rolex Daytona Ref. 6263 with tropical ‘Oyster Sotto’ dial, 2197852

In late 2013, a so-called ‘Oyster Sotto’ was the first ever vintage Rolex Daytona to break through the 1 million dollar barrier. Initially considered super rare, the interest and value rapidly declined after more and more pieces started to appear on the market. Today we count over 30 examples said to be real, in addition to numerous fakes. Of all of the known pieces, the watch sold at Monaco Legend Auctions is the only one featuring an abnormally wide ‘T Swiss T’. Clearly a weakness of the watch, this detail is never shown in full frontal view but almost always distorted by perspective or compeletly hidden as in the picture below.

Monaco Legend Auctions, Lot 281 – Rolex Daytona 'Oyster Sotto", Ref. 6263, 2197852
Monaco Legend Auctions, Lot 281 – Rolex Daytona ‘Oyster Sotto”, Ref. 6263, 2197852


Auction: Lot 281 – Rolex Daytona with tropical ‘Oyster Sotto’ dial (monacolegendauctions.com)

As the comparison below with three regular ‘Oyster Sotto’ Mk2 dials (right-hand side) shows, the wide ‘T Swiss T’ print is strange to say the least. A ‘T Swiss T’ like this, looking almost hand drawn, is unseen.

Comparison 'T Swiss T' Oyster 'Sotto' Mk2
Comparison ‘T Swiss T’ Oyster ‘Sotto’ Mk2


‘Oyster Sotto’ Mk2 dials, as their Mk1 counterparts, are modified black Ref. 6262/6264 3-colour Paul Newman dials where the ‘Oyster’ inscription was added later underneath (sotto in Italian) the ‘Cosmograph’ print, ergo also known as ‘RCO’ or Rolex Cosmograph Oyster. There are a number of Ref. 6262/6264 watches featuring untouched dials of this type (see below on the right-hand side) and accordingly, there have been several attempts to create fake ‘Oyster Sotto’ dials, many of which I have personally pointed out to auction houses in the past.

Rolex Paul Newman 'Sotto' Mk2 vs. non-Oyster Mk2
Rolex Paul Newman ‘Sotto’ Mk2 vs. non-Oyster Mk2


The majority of Ref. 6263/6265 Paul Newman dials featuring the Oyster designation, specifically so-called ‘Panda’ dials, where printed Rolex Oyster Cosmograph or ‘ROC’. The ‘Oyster’ print on so-called ‘Oyster Sotto’ dials is the very same that can be found on Mk1, Mk2 and Mk3 ‘Panda’ dials.

Comparison ‘Sotto’ or ‘RCO’ vs. ‘ROC’


The story goes Rolex had a bunch of black Ref. 6262/6264 Paul Newman dials lying around and instead of having a new batch made, they asked dial maker Singer to update them for the use in Ref. 6263 watches with screw-down pushers. Rolex introduced the ‘Oyster’ designation on Daytonas only in combination with screw-down pushers. As a side note, all Daytonas were actually Oyster watches with a water resistance of 165ft/50m. The screw-down pushers did not increase the water resistance but were merely a mechanical lock against accidental activation of the pushers, e.g. underwater.

Coming back to the peculiar tropical dial with never before seen wide ‘T Swiss T’, there are more very strange details. Hodinkee super “journalist” Mark Kauzlarich whom Parmegiani flies in for every auction, giving him the most exquisite VIP treatment in return for articles full of praise, provided the clearest picture of the dial yet.

Sotto Mk2 (Photo: Hodinkee)
Sotto Mk2 (Photo: Hodinkee)


The most interesting detail is the hour marker at 3 o’clock and its surroundings. The tritium lume plot looks like it ‘soaked up’ a colour (a) very similar to the ‘tropical’ area ‘touching’ it. I have not seen anything similar on other ‘Sotto’ Mk2 dials. Then there is that strange area right below the applied square hour marker (b) which looks like white colour was used to cover something. See how the red 17 minutes dash on the outer track is not clearly visible as it is partly covered by brown colour seemingly coming from underneath the covered area (a) below the marker? Traces of the same brown colour can also be found on the right-hand side of the hour maker (c) and also ‘touching’ the 13 minutes dash.

Peculiar hour marker at 3 o'clock
Peculiar hour marker at 3 o’clock


Another mystery are the two black areas (d) at the edge of the dial. All in all, this dial is a veritable mess. More than an Oyster ‘Sotto’ it appears to be an Oyster ‘Rotto’ (broken). What happend to it? I have of course a theory but for the time being, all I will say is I believe the outer track is not original and was reprinted, possibly due to a water damage similar to the one seen below.

Rolex Daytona Ref. 6241 featuring a Paul Newman dial with damaged outer track (Photo; Sotheby’s)


As for the rest of the peculiar details, I will my keep my powder dry and let you draw your own conclusions. Last year in October I reached out to Parmegiani with my observations which he of course played down, saying he bought the watch in 2010, before the ‘tropical’ frenzy, from a very simple dealer in New York who in turn had acquired the watch from the original owner. The usual story. Parmegiani promised to send me high resolution pictures of the dial without the crystal but never did, which was predictable. If the new owner of the watch is reading this, let us get to the bottom of this story. Something is terribly wrong with this dial in my opinion and if I am right, there will be a refund.


One More Thing, The 4113

One of the top lots in Monaco is John Goldberger’s Rolex split-seconds chronograph Ref. 4113 with case number 051321. In recent years, Goldberger, whose real name is Auro Montanari, has come under scrutiny after it became clear he had sold a totally made-up Frankenstein vintage Daytona in white gold featuring fake parts for USD 6 million, the infamous ‘Unicorn’. In addition, he also authenticated a number of fakes and made-up watches for a major auction house. It has also become a big question mark whether the watches said to be part of his collection are actually owned by him or if he is a just vehicle to lend provenance to watches that do not have any. In any case, “his” 4113 has a dial that is significantly different than other known watches. Another detail that needs mentioning for a watch of this magnitude, estimated to fetch between EUR 2,800,000 and EUR 5,600,000, is that the crown was replaced at some point and is not original.

Lot 101 – Rolex Split-Seconds Chronograph Ref. 4113, 051321
Lot 101 – Rolex Split-Seconds Chronograph Ref. 4113, 051321


Auction: Lot 101 – Rolex split-seconds chronograph Ref. 4113, 051321 (monacolegendauctions.com)

For a couple of years, Goldberger has been unloading many of “his” best pieces which is weird given he is supposedly very wealthy and not hard up for money. In a recent Instagram story I asked whether Rolex had ever confirmed having made the Rolex split-seconds chronograph Ref. 4113. With its peculiar soldered lugs which have a cheap feel to them, and considering the fact that no two dials of the known watches are the same, Ref. 4113 is unlike anything Rolex has ever produced.

Peculiar lugs of Ref. 4113 (Photo: Christie's)
Peculiar lugs of Ref. 4113 (Photo: Christie’s)


Since one of these watches was announced for auction in Monaco, I wanted to put an end to the wide spread uncertainty and simply asked Rolex for clarification. This was their reply:

“Thank you for your message and for your question regarding the Rolex Ref. 4113 (Chronographe à Rattrapante); we can confirm that this reference was indeed produced by the brand in 1942.”


Before reaching out to Rolex, I was contacted by an anonymous Instagram account that sent me excerpts of an old Rolex orders ledger where the exact number of cases ordered and their respective case numbers are noted, in addition to the case maker and the exact date of the order. It is also noted how many movements were ordered, from whom and when. Unfortuantely I am not allowed to publish the excerpts.

A total of 12 cases with case numbers 051313 to 051324 were made by Jean Humbert & Co. S.A. in La-Chaux-de-Fonds whose Poinçon de Maître (maker stamp) for precious metals was the hammer head with number 126. The cases were ordered in mid June 1942. The movements were ordered from the Genevean chronograph specialist Henri Hofer two months later in mid August 1942. There is no information about any dial order. However, the anonymous account sent also an archive picture of Ref. 4113 but its dial is unlike any found in watches that have surfaced so far as it does not feature a Rolex coronet. The closest, actually identical except for the coronet, is case number 051324 which was once part of the Mondani collection and was sold at Antiquorum in May 2006. In the following comparison, I removed the coronet from Mondani’s watch (left-hand side) to recreate the archive picture which I was asked not to publish.


As the above comparison shows, Goldberger’s watch (right-hand side) has a significantly different dial than the one seen in the archive picture. The ‘fond de compteurs’ or subdial cavities are larger in diameter while the print in the 30 minutes subdial at 3 o’clock is not even centered. For such a small batch of watches, it is certainly strange to see this many different dials, although some were clearly restored (reprinted). As can be seen in the overview below, today there are nine known examples, not eight as HoDonkey falsely claimed in a recent article promoting Goldberger’s 4113.

Overview of all nine known Ref. 4113 watches


I you can spare a minute or two, please go to the following HoDonkey article and leave a comment.

Link: Monaco Legend Group to sell one of twelve Rolex Ref 4113 split-seconds chronographs (hoodwinkee.com)


The next overview shows the variety of coronets. Sure, some are obviously reprinted but keep in mind that only 12 pieces were made. Why are there so many variations, not only of the dial itself but also of the Rolex logo and coronet?

Overview of the logos of all nine known Ref. 4113 watches


Another interesting observation is the fast pace at which these dials are deteriorating, raising some serious questions. A perfect example is case number 051318 which was the second example to appear on the market and can be traced back to a Christie’s auction in London in October 1991. Over the past 30 years, as can be seen in the comparison below, the dial lost lots of the printing. The reality of these watches is that they are neither dust nor water-resistant. Once the dial is gone and requires restoration, the value will be affected heavily.


Taking all of the above into consideration, Ref. 4113 is certainly an interesting and very rare Rolex watch but at the same time, it remains a not very well defined model with many question marks.


Thoughts

For the past few years, I have been reaching out to Parmegiani whenever I discovered watches at his auctions that were problematic. In some instances where the evidence was clear-cut, as was the case with the fake Rolex Daytona Ref. 6263 ‘Fuerza Aerea del Perú’, he immediately withdrew the lots. However, the way he stopped publishing detail pictures of the lots following the Perú story left a very bad taste in my mouth. Trust is like glass, once broken it will never be the same again.

There was a time when watch dealers were gods. Like the church in the old days, they were the gatekeepers of knowledge and excerted great influence over the market and collectors. Horological forensics impacted them hard, just like the first translation of the bible from Latin to German (Martin Luther) and its spread thanks to Gutenberg’s newly invented printing press helped break the catholic church’s monopoly on spirituality. Parmegiani has been in the business for decades. If the things he told me about the ‘Lemon’ at his auction being a transitional model is what he truly thinks, which I do not believe for a second, his knowledge of vintage Daytonas would be comparable to that of ancient people who thought the Earth was flat. Well, some still do. At the same time, he is probably the most important vintage watch dealer to have ever lived and for some reason, I treated him always with kid gloves. This recent episode with the ‘Lemon’ and him trying to take me for a ride as if I were a gullible fool like Kauzlarich, made me realize he should be treated just like anybody else I called out in the past. It would only be fair.

Parmegiani told me the ‘Lemon’ dial alone is worth more than the low estimate of the watch (EUR 600k). This might have been the case in the past but in this day and age, dials are not as valuable as they used to be. If this particular ‘Lemon’ dial were to be found in a correct Ref. 6264, even if disclosed, it would still not make the watch an natural-born ‘Lemon’ according to current standards. The same applies to other rare Paul Newman dial Daytonas such as the ‘Oyster Sotto’. Remember the one on sale at Christie’s Hong Kong in September 2021? It was not a real ‘Oyster Sotto’ as the dial was not original to the watch and as a result, it received zero bids. Nah Mr. Parmegiani, the times when dealers could swap dials from one watch to another without disclosure and get away with it are definitely over. By the way, if after this article I were to disappear, I probably ended up with concrete shoes at the bottom of the Mediterranean Sea somewhere near Monaco.

Thank you for your interest. Please help spread the word by reposting my content and commenting on relevant articles. If we all work together, we can put an end to these shenanigans and bring honesty back to this hobby.

18 comments

  • Jose Bandini's avatar

    Rolex market is full of money and speculation and pirates🏴‍☠️!

    Thanks for this post

    Like

  • As usual, an amazing deep dive read with stunning revelations! Your articles never cease to fascinate.

    You had me LOLing at the little “affectionate” nicknames (hoodwinkie!! HoDonkey!!) for that Johnny-come-lately-know-all website that has newbies quoting as gospel every time they want to make a point.

    Like

  • Dear Jose,

    I do not know how to put this to you, but I will try. 

    I have been a book collector and seller for over 40 years. In all of those years I have encountered maybe one or two rotten apples – no more. Once you cheat on your customers in this trade, you are out – and very much so. More than 99% of the book dealers I have ever met are honest, lovable and know their trade.

    What you describe in your very well researched articles just leaves me baffled. How can anyone offer/sell watches at these prices and cheat their customers? I love watches and spend hours on YouTube seeing them restored, so I cannot understand the low ethics in the sale of some of the rarest items.

    This has to end. There must be a lot of honest people in your trade who must feel let down. And very much so.

    Since you focus on the bad apples – and rightly so – you might want to showcase the good guys as well. The people who do not screw their customers, and offered watches that were original. Maybe this will wake up some of the bad guys?

    Anyway, keep up your good work, as frustrating as it may be.

    Und liäbi Grüess us Zürich,

    Yves

    Like

    • Great points, Yves and I’d add that it seems the “bad apple”, perpetrators of the shenanigans that Jose writes about are SERIAL repeat offenders!! I mean… how is that possible? Wouldn’t these dealers’ names be total dirt by now??

      Basically it tells me the industry is okay with looking the other way, okay with fraud, uncaring about unwary consumers getting ripped off and a select group of dealers are protecting their small circle cabal with the complicity of auction houses.

      Like

  • im curious who decides the ‘current standard’ you are talking about. Also how you decide what is the value of a loose Lemon Dial today!?

    i guess Mr Parmigiani and any auctioneer does know better the value of those dials and watches then the ones sitting behind their PC ‘talking watches’. At the end, the buyer decide the value. Also fun to read about the Rolex Rattrapante, obviously it’s not your type of watch, you didn’t trust the reference and now got your confirmation from rolex they do exsist, so I don’t understand your issue ? Because you don’t like the model it’s still a rare watch and the market (and the buyer who can afford it) decide the price, not you.

    there is no written rule that a change of dial should be mentioned for the simple reason that some watches are older then us and watches can’t speak, so at the end you NEVER know if a dial has been changed in the past. Then you can study to know if the dial is correct for the year, original, unrestored etc. If this is NOT your piece of cake don’t buy (vintage) watches… it’s always the ‘keyboard warriors’ who complain about this matter, the great collectors I know who actually do buy watches at auctions study the watches very carefully and enjoy the hunt for the perfect watch.

    have a good day

    Like

    • Spoken like a true dealer. Everything you just said shows how totally out of touch with reality your kind is. So stay tuned my friend, there is so much more coming.

      Like

    • And the takeaway from this is: Do NOT buy a vintage watch unless it whispers to you and tells you it’s legit and okay to purchase.

      Like

  • mark talbot's avatar

    Another great article, it just shows that the main auction houses and so called ”Rolls Royce” collectors/sellers are nothing more than elaborate con artists (and bloody good ones). Ive been collecting vintage watches for over 25 years, and i never spend more than £1000 on any watch-why? because i can never be sure of its true history, ie i pay only what i can afford to loose. Only an idiot would spend tens of thousands or much more on a vintage watch unless it is sold by its original owner with a complete full documented history. Keep up this good work Jose, maybee one day this type of con trick will stop (but i fear it wont!).

    Like

    • marktalbot17's avatar

      I left a reply on the Hodinkee website as requested, and they promptly removed it! Jose, you have rattled a few cages here!

      Like

  • Interesting. In search of truth my question has been deleted. May be I am better of to rephrase it. Do I understand you right: Your POV is that a 1900XXX yellow gold housing with an incorporated 721 caliber and a Lemon/Champagner Paul Newmann dial never left Rolex premises?

    Like

    • Nobody deleted your question. Your comment wasn’t approved yet as I’m travelling and have other things to focus on but to answer your question, a Champagne dial is a completely different animal than a Lemon dial, and yes they are known in earlier case numbers in combination with 722-1 calibers. So the watch you pointed out is perfectly fine at first glance.

      Like

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